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    Thread: Why do European cars use Bolts?

    1. Member velocipedio's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 07:37 AM #71
      Quote, originally posted by Surf Green »

      Not supplied in cars sold in the US.

      The space in the toolfoam is there... just the tool isn't.

      We have to buy them aftermarket... like 6 or 7 prior posts have said.

      I am American and brought my B6 A4 Avant to Germany. My car was purchased in the U.S. and came with the tool. It's also mentioned in NA-edition owner's manual for both the B6 and B7. Not sure what you are talking about.


      Modified by velocipedio at 4:39 AM 2-12-2010


    2. Member TurboWraith's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 07:51 AM #72
      Quote, originally posted by 480 »
      Because they work???

      The exposed threads of a stud can rust, or be open to damage in other ways, where a bolt has all of its thread buried in the rotor or drum, takes a lot more abuse.

      Also, an engineer friend of mine has remarked in the past that lug bolts are stronger, although I'm not sure how that works. I do know that of the hundreds of lug bolts I've removed in my life, I've never stripped, broken, or otherwise damaged a single one. I have snapped a few studs due to crossthreaded nuts or stripped threads.

      Ever heard of capped lugnuts? Accomplishes the same thing.

      The vertical load is not put on the lugbolts/studs. It is transfered to the hub from the wheel directly, on the chamfer found at the center of the hub.


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      02-12-2010 09:11 AM #73
      Quote, originally posted by Surf Green »

      Not supplied in cars sold in the US.

      The space in the toolfoam is there... just the tool isn't.

      We have to buy them aftermarket... like 6 or 7 prior posts have said.

      Both of my mercedes have come with the tool...


    4. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 09:19 AM #74
      Quote, originally posted by blue75vette »
      Both of my mercedes have come with the tool...

      None of my VWs did.

      Bro, do you even lift? When you only have 90 horsepower, you don't ever lift.
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      02-12-2010 09:28 AM #75
      Quote, originally posted by Surf Green »

      None of my VWs did.

      VWs do not come with the tool, Audis do.
      Though, the Audi tool isn't steel, it's black plastic, but looks identical to the one pictured in this thread (hole at the end for threading with the aid of the factory supplied screw driver).

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    6. 02-12-2010 09:48 AM #76
      My .02 I'd like to see a single hub / nut like those used on real race cars (Not NASFARCE).

    7. Member Scuba2001's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 09:52 AM #77
      It's threads like this that add to my ongoing argument the people in TCL will bitch about anything and everything.

      Quote, originally posted by Preppy »
      VWs do not come with the tool, Audis do.

      My '98 VW Passat came with the black plastic tool.


      Modified by Scuba2001 at 9:54 AM 2-12-2010

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    8. Senior Member patrikman's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 09:54 AM #78
      Quote, originally posted by Sniper666 »
      My .02 I'd like to see a single hub / nut like those used on real race cars (Not NASFARCE).

      If you want knockoffs then buy some Daytons.


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      02-12-2010 09:58 AM #79
      Quote, originally posted by Icantdrive65 »
      Bolts are less likely to back out. Generally, there is more thread contact.


      ding! this is correct.....and generally thought to be more safe than a bolt/nut combo.

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    10. 02-12-2010 10:01 AM #80
      just put a new hub on some guys 85 cabrio yesterday afternoon, he lost his wheel in the parking lot when two of the wheel bolts stripped out or sheared off, supposedly after two were already gonzo.

    11. Member EL DRIFTO's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 10:23 AM #81
      the first pic is tapered not conical bolts
      studs under caps still rust for me
      lets not forget the left hand stuff on left side of mopar
      i personally like the vr lugbolts, same head as 4 cyl but THREAD
      i always look forward to starting the car NO BOLT in the front rotor , 1st gear on jack, let out the clutch, foot on break & SNAP the tiny rotor screw wont take 500lb/ft, rotor on ground


      Modified by EL DRIFTO at 4:14 PM 2-12-2010

    12. 02-12-2010 10:37 AM #82
      Quote, originally posted by Pueblorrado v4.0 »
      just put a new hub on some guys 85 cabrio yesterday afternoon, he lost his wheel in the parking lot when two of the wheel bolts stripped out or sheared off, supposedly after two were already gonzo.

      Introduce that man (cabby and man does not compute) to anti-seize!


    13. Member redshift's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 11:02 AM #83
      I find that bolts, while a little harder to get threaded properly (mine was a VW and not a super-awesome-cool Audi, so I was not issued special tool BZX5324-000-E235 - lugboltenstraightenhauser), the bolts protected my wheels a lot better because the shoulder of the bolt head stopped the impact socket before it could slide down and scratch the wheel. Most lugs are straight on the outside, i.e. the socket goes right over them and it's difficult to keep it from contacting the face of the wheel. That never happened with my lugbolts.
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    14. Member IJM's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 11:17 AM #84
      ^^^ Good point. I also find that bolts are much more difficult to cross-thread than lugnuts.

    15. 02-12-2010 11:33 AM #85
      Do german trucks also use stud bolts? I can't imagine changing a 35 inch tire without the lineup thingy.

    16. Member JMTombstone's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 11:54 AM #86
      Quote, originally posted by sp_golf »
      Stop complaining rookies. Yes it's harder to put on a wheel with bolts but it's not rocket science, if you use your brain it's easy.

      x2 It really isn't too hard to line up the holes. As for fear of the bolts seizing, before putting them in you could lightly coat them in anti-seize.

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      Quote Originally Posted by pwm View Post
      Look...we know what Chris Harris thinks of the FR-S, and now we know what Jay Leno thinks, but what do 20 year old euro humping TCL'ers driving 10 year old golfs and who jerk it to TDIs think?! I don't think we've heard from them yet...

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      02-12-2010 12:08 PM #87
      Quote, originally posted by velocipedio »

      Try opening your manual and reading about the OEM supplied tool for lining up the bolt holes.

      2007 VW Jetta:

      In reference to the Owners Manual,
      A list of OEM supplied tools, as per the version "englisch Nordamerika 12.2006," on page 288, under the section titled "Vehicle tool kit" reads as follows:
      1-Screwdriver with reversible blade.
      2-Adapter for anti-theft wheel bolts. (footnote, optional equipment)
      3-Towing eye, removable.
      4-Wire hook for pulling off wheels center covers and wheel bolt caps.
      5-Jack fpr changing a wheel. (...)
      6-Lug wrench for wheel bolts.

      Furthermore,
      A list of OEM supplied tools, as per the version "3.2 Rat und Tat (...) Deutsch 05.2006" on page 80, under the section titled "Bordwerkzeuge," reads as follows:
      1-Adapter für die Antidiebstahl-Rad-schrauben. (Sonderausstattung)
      2-Abschleppöse, einschraubbar.
      3-Radschlüssel.
      4-Wagenheber (...)
      5-Schraubendreher (...)
      6-Drahtbügel zum Abziehen der Radmittenabdeckungen oder der Abdeckung für die Radschrauben. (Sonderausstattung)

      That said, if changing a wheel is your only reason to whine, then you seriously need to rethink this whole driving thing.

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    18. Member 1Point8TDan's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 12:19 PM #88
      Quote, originally posted by urogolf »
      using one of these helps mounting the german cars wheels dramatically

      That is fking genius!!! I can't believe I never stumped upon that until now. Will order this today.


    19. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 01:06 PM #89
      I know this is a Corbic thread, but I still am shaking my head that we have a 3pg thread on wheel bolts.

      I have bolts. I like them over studs. I have the threaded stud thing. That works good, too. This is not rocket science, kids. I just taught some 9YO Cub Scouts how to do this. Proper use of feet/legs makes bolts a no-brainer.

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    20. 02-12-2010 01:10 PM #90
      The ease of having wheel studs is often negated by the difficulty of using a factory equipped axle jack.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmOf2JPBLbE

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    21. Member slomofo.'s Avatar
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      02-12-2010 01:12 PM #91
      when bmpracing converted an E30 into a full on track car, the part they broke the most was.......... you guessed it, lug studs. they did a conversion from bolts to long studs to make it easier to change tires at the track and that's the part that broke the most on the car. there IS a reason for lug bolts
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    22. Member SlowMotion's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 01:12 PM #92
      Quote, originally posted by VdubChaos »
      Really simple.

      Germans like to make things more complicated\complex then they really are. Rest of Europe just follows.

      Look no further then World War 2 for proof.



      But the Japanese were involved in that too.

    23. Geriatric Member AKADriver's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 01:19 PM #93
      Quote, originally posted by SlowMotion »
      But the Japanese were involved in that too.

      They were just trying to make Asia smaller and more efficient!

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    24. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 01:19 PM #94
      Quote, originally posted by 480 »
      Because they work???

      The exposed threads of a stud can rust, or be open to damage in other ways, where a bolt has all of its thread buried in the rotor or drum, takes a lot more abuse.

      Also, an engineer friend of mine has remarked in the past that lug bolts are stronger, although I'm not sure how that works. I do know that of the hundreds of lug bolts I've removed in my life, I've never stripped, broken, or otherwise damaged a single one. I have snapped a few studs due to crossthreaded nuts or stripped threads.

      I've dealt with messed up threads in an old drum, retapped easily while still mounted to the car, try replacing a stud without removing the drum.

      Finally, if you're having problems lining up the lug holes on a car with bolts, stop off at your local hardware superstore and pick up a long bolt with the same thread, chop the head off with your power tool of choice and toss it in your glovebox. Next time you have to endure the torture of installing your own wheel, thread the modified bolt into your rotor first, slide the wheel over it, into place, spin in a few lugs and unthread your new homemade sub $1 tool. Or just buy the tool to line them up, same thing.

      Pretty much this. I've never seen a lug bolt break, but I've seen hundreds of studs break. Hundreds. There are a few posts on here that say it would be harder if it happened, but has anyone actually seen it happen? I'm not saying that they don't, but they sure don't very often. If the Germans are doing it, there's likely a pretty sound reason. It's like the rotating seat recliners that everyone complains about. If you're driving and you want to recline, there's NO chance of flopping back so far that you lose control of the car. Simple as that.

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    25. Member xdre's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 01:29 PM #95
      Quote, originally posted by Air and water do mix »

      Pretty much this. I've never seen a lug bolt break, but I've seen hundreds of studs break. Hundreds. There are a few posts on here that say it would be harder if it happened, but has anyone actually seen it happen? I'm not saying that they don't, but they sure don't very often.

      Neither do studs. You're just more likely to see them because they're much more predominant in the US.


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      02-12-2010 01:30 PM #96
      Wheel bolts suck ass. There's no other reason to use them other than to make things overly complex, hence why it's done on German cars.

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      02-12-2010 01:31 PM #97
      Quote, originally posted by Knock Sensor »
      Its not that hard to line up and put a wheel on if the car is on a jack. Usually I either sit down or use my feet to hold the tire/wheel up and just screw the top bolt in. Its not difficult, takes all of 5 seconds to thread the bolt and you hold the tire up with your feet while they're on the ground. Quit whining.

      Now if its on a lift, maybe its a bit tougher.

      Or of you're changing a falt on an old non-hub-centric Beetle on the side of the road in the rain and mud where sitting down and trying to locate the hole in the hub in the dark is something you tend to end up cursing at.

      Most people here tend to think about doing this on a modern hubcentric car, in the dry, in the dayight, in their driveway/garage.

      Personally, I don't usually care one way or the other.

      As for studs being exposed...

      Most of us with domestic or japanese cars have figured that out a long time ago.

      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    28. 02-12-2010 02:11 PM #98
      Quote, originally posted by blue75vette »

      Both of my mercedes have come with the tool...

      So what you are saying is that tools and Mercedes' go together....

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    29. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 02:12 PM #99
      Quote, originally posted by xdre »
      Neither do studs. You're just more likely to see them because they're much more predominant in the US.

      Really? I suppose my 20+ years selling auto parts (4 years at an import only place that catered to the VW crowd) means nothing, huh? I rarely sold wheel bolts and when I did, it was usually to replace lost ones or someone was building a dune buggy and was changing things around.

      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
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    30. Senior Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 02:16 PM #100
      Quote, originally posted by Merc63 »
      Or of you're changing a falt on an old non-hub-centric Beetle on the side of the road in the rain and mud where sitting down and trying to locate the hole in the hub in the dark is something you tend to end up cursing at.

      Nah, I've done it (and so have you). You already know it's not too hard. I just hold the wheel at the top, put my toe under it and move the brake drum until one lines up and presto!

      Quote, originally posted by Merc63 »
      Personally, I don't usually care one way or the other.

      As for studs being exposed...

      Yup. I don't really care which way my car comes now. Each has it's advantages/disadvantages and I don't have problems with either. Of course, if some schlep at the tire store does something dumb like use an impact wrench to put them on, well, that's a different story.

      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
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    31. Member Scuba2001's Avatar
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      02-12-2010 02:26 PM #101
      Working in the auto parts industry, I've had more people come into the store to replace broken studs and stripped nuts than I've had asking for lug bolts. To be honest, we don't even stock lug bolts in the store because we very rarely move them.

      On a given truck delivery, we have a good half-dozen boxes of studs/nuts that come in on our two delivery runs a week. That should tell ya something.

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      02-12-2010 03:18 PM #102
      Just set the wheel on the hub ring then thread in a bolt. It's not hard.
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      02-12-2010 03:37 PM #103
      I have 4 VW and 1 Audi and can say I have never had a problem removing the bolts. Ever. I have even taken rims off a rusty VW in the junkyard that have been sitting there for years.

      I think its easier frankly to have bolts as I dont have line the tire up with the lugs and lift it onto it. I just put it on and spin the tire till the holes line up. Done.


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      02-12-2010 03:42 PM #104
      Quote, originally posted by Scuba2001 »
      Working in the auto parts industry, I've had more people come into the store to replace broken studs and stripped nuts than I've had asking for lug bolts. To be honest, we don't even stock lug bolts in the store because we very rarely move them.

      On a given truck delivery, we have a good half-dozen boxes of studs/nuts that come in on our two delivery runs a week. That should tell ya something.

      Yeah, it says that the vast, vast majority of cars on the road have studs/nuts.


    35. 02-12-2010 03:45 PM #105
      Quote, originally posted by peachypotpies »
      Hey CL, a German wheel bolt walked into my house with dirty jackboots on and disrespected my whole family and drank all my beer. I'm now hot and bothered. Discuss.

      -Your very own Corbic.

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