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    Thread: Common Issues to 24v VR6 motors

    1. Member apstguy's Avatar
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      04-27-2007 02:38 AM #1
      I haven't been able to find a list of common issues to 24v VR6 motors so I will go ahead and start one. (Just as a note, most of the problems are minor, 24V VR6s are reliable motors)

      Coilpacks - Can go bad leaving you stranded. Not as common at 1.8T coils. MIL light flashes and throttle is turned off. Causes misfires and many misfire codes. Causes stalling and rough idle. Several versions have been made. Version A-D are very failure prone! Stay away. Other revisions: D G J K N *update*: Old part number revision N #022-905-100N NEW PART #022 905 715C
      You can check coilpack by unpluging while engine is idling. If that particular coil does NOT change the idle when unplugged, that coil is bad.

      Intake shifter rod/bushings - The variable stage intake manifold's bushings wear out causing idle issues and noise. May sound like loose marbles in the intake. A company makes beefier aftermarket bushing to prevent it from happening again. Company: Gruven Parts (Vortex doesn't allow direct links) dot com

      Warm Stall - covered to death in other threads. Suffice to say it sounds exactly like its name and a reflash from the dealer can fix it. Engine revs when you start it, then dies. Here is the TSB if your dealer wants to know: TSB 01-04-04 Free fix if you are still under warranty. (FYI, if you are chipped, taking it to the dealer for the software update will ERASE your chip! You can get updated code from your chip manufacturer for free to fix warmstall afflicted chipped cars) http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1297652

      G62 Coolant sensor - If you have a black sensor, it WILL fail as all MkIV motors. Symptoms is a CEL and/or gauge fluctuation.. New version is green. I picked up the new green version plus o-ring at the VW dealer for $3.42, but it seems now the price has gone up to $20. Many have reported a drastic drop in gas mileage when the sensor went bad. VAG part#059919501A Location and install: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3386797

      Timing Chain - *NOTE* This is only an issue if you hear noise. There are NOT many reports of failed guides on 24Vs. Higher mileage motors might have the chain tensioner or the guide rails fail. Doesn't happen anywhere near as often as the 12V VR6s as they changed the guide rail designs quite a bit. Result is bent valves, damaged heads, and a really big paperweight. Best to change as soon as it makes any strange noise (noise from the driver's side of the engine is an indicator, slight chain noise is perfectly normal, remember there are 24 valves in there). Requires removal of tranny and engine from car.

      Stretched Timing Chain - Common in Eurovans and Forced Induction engines. High heat and high loads can cause the timing chain to stretch, resulting in a mistimed engine. Using conventional oil or abusing oil change intervals is the usual cause of stretched chains. Will cause a CEL for cam/correlation errors.

      Water pump - fail as the impellers are made of plastic, but more commonly the seal & bearings fail. Can break apart and clog cooling system causing cooling system inefficiency/problems. If it starts to make noise, change now! Metal impeller model is available but can be hard to find (Hepu brand). Recommended interval for changing is 80-100K depending on who you talk to. But many fail earlier and may fail as early as 20k. Change as preventive maintenance.

      Auxiliary (Secondary) After-run coolant pump - The secondary water pump runs for 10 minutes after the ignition is turned off. Usually only fails on high-mileage motors. You will hear a soft "whir" from the front end. Symptoms of a failed or failing pump is no noise, very very weak noise, or pulsing. This is due to the sealed design of the electric motor, all the brushes' dust stays in the motor gumming it up. It can be repaired by taking the motor apart and cleaning in or by simply buying a new pump for around $100. It may seem like it doesn't do much, but VW is notorious for cost cutting, so why would they add a second water pump unless it did something important? It keeps the aluminum head and block cooling at the same rate to avoid warpage. VAG part# 3D0 965 561 D

      Thermostat housing/coolant flange & "crack pipe" is plastic and can break and leak because of heatcycling. Best to replace with waterpump. Several companies sell metal water distribution pipes aka "crack pipes" if you want to upgrade.

      CELs in general. Primarily Catalyst below efficiency threshold and oxygen sensor related codes. Most likely causes are bad MAF, bad oxygen sensors, or poor quality gasoline. Can be caused by failing converter, but is much more likely to be the previously stated reasons.

      Pinging - These cars ping. Only use 91 octane to prevent most pinging. It is annoying but you have to get used to it. Sorry.

      MAF sensor - Frequently go bad as with all MkIV motors. Clean often to avoid CELs. Most automotive stores sell MAF cleaner now, but electronics cleaner works just as well. The VR6 MAF sensor is the same guts as the 2.0 sensor but the housing is bigger. You can easily remove it from the new housing and mount in the old. Buy what is cheaper. (I hear now they changed the parts so now they are the same part # and come without the housing, you must reuse the old housing. Can someone else confirm?) EPC, Check Engine, & Stability Control light will illuminate when MAF codes are thrown. Also, can cause poor idle and general running problems. Unplug sensor and see if idle improves. If it does, sensor is bad.

      Dual Mass Flywheels - once broken or messed up, they stay that way. They are very expensive to replace and CANNOT be resurfaced.

      Oxygen sensors - they fail often but with most modern cars, they should be replaced at regular intervals. Can cause CELs. No rule of thumb has been established for replacement, but changing with sparks plug on other cars is a guideline, but I *think* they should go 60k before replacement. Shop carefully on these, many dealer will charge $200 per sensor; you can get these cheaper elsewhere.

      Serpentine Belt Tensioner Pulley Bearing may start to squeal. You can save it if you act before it get worse. Repacking the bearing with grease can save the bearing and extend its life. Otherwise, you must buy a new pulley. DIY for a 12V but procedure is identical: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1138497 - 12Vs use a 7 rib belt, 24V use a 6 rib belt (24V specific). Be careful when ordering belts and pulleys! *update* Gruvenparts now offers the 24V VR6 Idler pulley (6 rib) with beefier and replaceable bearings.

      Fan Fuses - The fuses for the cooling fan may pop, causing overheating and no a/c. If it continually pops, it is most likely the fans have gone bad shorting internally. Vary rarely, the fan control module or temp. sensor may be faulty. See this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3126433

      The cooling fan's low speed die caused by bad resistors in the fan motors (which is probably why the above fuses pop). You can just replace the fans or fix the design flaw by either adding external resistors, adding a PWM controller (new VWs have PWM controlled fans), or outright bypassing the FCM (fan controller module). Fan low speed remedy and why it happens: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3890491
      More low speed info (see bottom post): http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3844295
      FCM Bypass: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...zable-solution.

      Just a heads up - the throttle valve needs to be cleaned to prevent idle problems. Every 40K should take car of it. Simple procedure (for 12V but very similar) http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1116399

      So what did I forget? Lets build the list up! Part # and link would be helpful too.

      Engine related but more general MkIV problem: Fuel pump relay: may fail resulting in no fuel to engine. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4076745

      Also a major problem: Transmission related: 02M slave cylinder in tranny fails requiring removal of tranny to fix, for a $60 part. Usually happens around 80k-110k miles.
      Last edited by apstguy; 02-23-2011 at 05:30 PM.
      Gone: 2008 VW R32
      Gone: 2002.5 VW GTI 24v VR6 - 180k+ miles

    2. 04-27-2007 09:25 AM #2
      Very good thread.

      Only thing i'd change is the coolant sensor can cause fluctuation on the temp gauge in your cluster as well as a CEL ...

      To add:

      Warmstall - When you start your engine, it revs up and stalls out. Common fix (free) at the dealer.

      ~ 2.9L24VAWICVR6TGTI ~ "NuckinFutz" ~ SOLD 8/19/10
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    3. Member CoolWhiteWolfsburg's Avatar
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      04-27-2007 03:03 PM #3
      Add to the list

      Thermostat housing/coolant flange-Plastic housing can crack and leak.



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      2.9L 24v twin turbo VR6 on a stand, 2002 S6 Avant with a Tial 770R 2.7T swap and O1E manual swap
      04-27-2007 03:57 PM #4
      I may be wrong, but don't the VR6's have a one-piece flywheel? That's why all the 1.8T guys get the VR6 clutch and flywheel packages.
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    5. Member CoolWhiteWolfsburg's Avatar
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      04-27-2007 07:09 PM #5
      Nope VR6 is dual mass, the common 1.8T upgrade is VR6 clutch, G60 flywheel

    6. Member apstguy's Avatar
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      04-29-2007 03:12 PM #6
      I added your guys thoughts in. I forgot about the coolant pipe, don't some companies make metal ones now?
      Gone: 2008 VW R32
      Gone: 2002.5 VW GTI 24v VR6 - 180k+ miles

    7. 04-29-2007 04:58 PM #7
      Quote, originally posted by apstguy »
      I added your guys thoughts in. I forgot about the coolant pipe, don't some companies make metal ones now?

      IIRC it's PAP-parts that makes the metal crack pipes. Good list and nice descriptions. Definitely DIY/FAQ material


    8. 05-02-2007 04:15 PM #8
      The vortex sucks and won't let me post a real link - Type this into your browser:

      http://www.gruvenparts.com

      I have a set that was used for 1.5K miles if anyone is interested...

      ~ 2.9L24VAWICVR6TGTI ~ "NuckinFutz" ~ SOLD 8/19/10
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    9. 05-16-2007 10:01 PM #9
      mil lite caused for cat failure po420, po421, po422, etc. is now a reflash available at the deal if you are still under federal emmisions warranty
      (8 years, 80,000 regardless of ownership)

    10. Member Ld7w_VR's Avatar
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      05-17-2007 04:29 PM #10
      I agree that this is a great thread. It helps a lot.
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    11. Member rajvosa71000's Avatar
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      05-17-2007 08:04 PM #11
      Would that warm stall issue work if they do it on a chipped car?

    12. Member apstguy's Avatar
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      05-17-2007 09:10 PM #12
      If the dealer flashes your car, the chip is reprogrammed to stock - chips based on the earlier factory coding will warm stall, most chip manufacturers now have updated software based on the newer software from VW - I have heard the chip manufacturers will reflash for free if you have warm stall. Call & ask your chip manufacturer.
      Gone: 2008 VW R32
      Gone: 2002.5 VW GTI 24v VR6 - 180k+ miles

    13. 05-18-2007 12:06 PM #13
      Also, if you shift too hard it is possible to damage the shifter selector arm/rod. I bent/cracked mine on my 14.3 1/4 run. Changes the shifting pattern a little so you have to do a little extra turn for each gear. Really annoying problem. Its been posted about in the past by several people and one guy had a picture he drew that showed the "new" shift pattern.

    14. Member apstguy's Avatar
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      05-21-2007 06:03 PM #14
      I was trying to keep this to engine related problems only for sake of simplicity. The 02m transmissions all have common issues as well (such as a stiff 2nd gear or 2nd gear grinding)

      Update on coilpacks is posted!

      Gone: 2008 VW R32
      Gone: 2002.5 VW GTI 24v VR6 - 180k+ miles

    15. 07-18-2007 09:25 PM #15
      can a 12v crank be used on a 24v?
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    16. 07-19-2007 05:54 AM #16
      yeh the crank for all the 2.8's is the same

      I'd like to add, since this has happened to a few people, radiator fans chew through coolant, electrical, and vac lines when using too large/stiff of after market dogbone mounts.


      Modified by kungfoojesus at 2:56 AM 7-19-2007


    17. 07-19-2007 08:59 AM #17
      Add Airbag Fault.

      Code can only be reset by the dealer, not mechanic. Mine was caused by a faulty seatbelt sensor which requires the entire seat to be removed to fix == lots of labor, lots of $$$.


    18. Member PhReE's Avatar
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      07-19-2007 12:36 PM #18
      Quote, originally posted by GuyTanatz »
      Add Airbag Fault.

      Code can only be reset by the dealer, not mechanic. Mine was caused by a faulty seatbelt sensor which requires the entire seat to be removed to fix == lots of labor, lots of $$$.

      Thats MkIV specific not 24v specific.

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    19. 09-28-2007 09:34 AM #19
      Timing Chain - Higher mileage motors might have the chain tensioner or the guide rails fail. Usually between 100k-150k. Result is bent valves, damaged heads, and a really big paperweight. Best to change it as preventive maintenance.
      my motor only has like 40k on it but its going to be apart so it cant hurt.

      might go turbo so I need to know the cheapest place to get:

      *timing chain or tensioners?$

      *head studs?$

      *and all the gaskets?$

      *head spacer?$

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    20. Member ladiexmack's Avatar
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      10-11-2007 12:23 AM #20
      Good info, this should be bumped. So uh bump!

    21. Moderator DannyLo's Avatar
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      10-11-2007 12:40 AM #21
      mackie mackie...we need to get a chillers chat soon

    22. 10-11-2007 06:46 PM #22
      This should be a sticky.

      I have a question about the coil packs. How much is a new one, how do you know that's why you're stalled and how hard to replace on the road?


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      10-13-2007 01:44 PM #23
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3490149
      so what about this issue,how many of these have happened?timing chain gear. what kills me is the seviceabiltiy of it.

    24. 10-13-2007 02:49 PM #24

      So far I've heard of that problem once - that once that you referenced. If there are others, I don't think they've ever been posted. If you are worried about yours, go ahead and service/replace it. I don't think it's something the general 24v population is going to need to worry about. I know I'm not


    25. 10-31-2007 04:15 PM #25
      oh his helps alot! i can already pinpoint 3 or 4 of those on my car

    26. 01-08-2008 03:02 AM #26
      Don't know if this is common. My clutch just failed after 64K. My tech found the timing chain cover had developed a leak and fouled my clutch with engine oil. My clutch looked like it had another 60K to go too...damn.

      If you've got the trans out, you might want to replace this.


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      01-14-2008 01:59 AM #27
      Quote, originally posted by originalgeek »
      Don't know if this is common. My clutch just failed after 64K. My tech found the timing chain cover had developed a leak and fouled my clutch with engine oil. My clutch looked like it had another 60K to go too...damn.

      If you've got the trans out, you might want to replace this.

      did you notice anything "not right" with your tranny before the clutch failed? like was the car displaying different driving characteristics?

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    28. 01-14-2008 05:01 PM #28
      I know its not engine specific, but the 24v axles break very easily. I don't read about it happening as much on 1.8ts, especially not stock ones. Run drag radials and they will break.

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      01-14-2008 05:21 PM #29
      Quote, originally posted by eric@vr6dynos.com »
      I know its not engine specific, but the 24v axles break very easily. I don't read about it happening as much on 1.8ts, especially not stock ones. Run drag radials and they will break.

      in my case it didn't even take drag radials to do it...

      i/c/e and spirited driving while dropped a couple of inches WILL eventually kill the drivers CV...

      very common....


    30. Member PhReE's Avatar
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      01-14-2008 08:11 PM #30
      Quote, originally posted by juan8595 »
      Timing Chain - Higher mileage motors might have the chain tensioner or the guide rails fail. Usually between 100k-150k. Result is bent valves, damaged heads, and a really big paperweight. Best to change it as preventive maintenance.
      my motor only has like 40k on it but its going to be apart so it cant hurt.

      might go turbo so I need to know the cheapest place to get:

      *timing chain or tensioners?$

      *head studs?$

      *and all the gaskets?$

      *head spacer?$

      Honestly i dont think this is as big of an issue as people think -- I mean even with broken tensioners the engine will still run fine in most cases, just be a bit noisy. Although if mine were broken I would porlly want to replace them yes, but since they have been redesigned and are quite a bit stronger on the 24v than the 12v (where this is a VERY common problem) I dont think this will be as big of an issue for us. Time will tell.


      Quote, originally posted by eric@vr6dynos.com »
      I know its not engine specific, but the 24v axles break very easily. I don't read about it happening as much on 1.8ts, especially not stock ones. Run drag radials and they will break.

      What really seems to do them in (even at stock power levels) is dropping the car quite a bit.

      -James
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      01-14-2008 11:05 PM #31
      Quote, originally posted by PhReE »


      What really seems to do them in (even at stock power levels) is dropping the car quite a bit.

      beginning moderately low to slammed reeks havoc on the CVs.


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      01-14-2008 11:08 PM #32
      i have a good question. my car no matter what i do, when i start from a stop or slight roll in second gear the car bucks. its as if the throttle cuts out but its not that because i replaced the throttle body. it doesn't matter if i give it more gas or less gas or step off the clutch quicker or slower it cuts out/bucks when i start in 2nd gear. anyone know what this is? i believe its a ECU problem.

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    33. Moderator DannyLo's Avatar
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      01-14-2008 11:24 PM #33
      Quote, originally posted by finallyavr6 »
      i have a good question. my car no matter what i do, when i start from a stop or slight roll in second gear the car bucks. its as if the throttle cuts out but its not that because i replaced the throttle body. it doesn't matter if i give it more gas or less gas or step off the clutch quicker or slower it cuts out/bucks when i start in 2nd gear. anyone know what this is? i believe its a ECU problem.

      i get that sometimes...i think it's something to do with DBW lag from what it seems like...because if i ease on it SOOOOOOOO lightly it doesnt do it if i give the car a chance to regain it's momentum....but if the cars still on a little bit of a decel and i give it gas when it's at low revs at a stop sign doing a rolling stop...it'll buck exactly like what you say


    34. 01-15-2008 03:41 PM #34
      Quote, originally posted by nuskool »

      I have a question about the coil packs. How much is a new one, how do you know that's why you're stalled and how hard to replace on the road?

      New coil pack from the dealer is about $28. They wont cause the car to stall, just run really really rough with a horrible smell from the exhaust. If you know which coilpack has gone south (#X Cylinder misfire), then the proceedure to fix takes less than 5 minutes:

      With a medium flat-head screwdriver, pry the ignition wire cap off of the top of the coil-pack.

      With a long (10" - 12") zip-tie, make a large loop around the top of the coil-pack. Tighten the loop around the top of the coil-pack. Pull. It should come right out of the cylinder head. Push the new coil-pack down into the cylinder head until it pops onto the spark-plug tightly.

      Replace the ignition wire cap.

      You're done. Go have and celebrate saving hundreds of $$$ by doing it yourself.




      Modified by MonkeyBiz at 3:42 PM 1-15-2008


    35. 01-21-2008 11:19 PM #35
      About that Airbag Fault light: About how much did that cost you? I have the same problem which really sucks, 'cos I just spent $3,400 on a new trans., $300 on new brakes, and I still need to fix the power window on the driver's side. All of this in a matter of two weeks (I just bought the car). Is it easier and cheaper to fix the window myself at least? I'm new to the forum so any help would be greatly appreciated.

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